Admin
Administrator
He DID say these things. OLSC agrees wholeheartedly with what Father said in his sermons about true parishes.
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Summary of the current position of Our Lady of the Southern Cross
- Thread starter Michael1
- Start date
He DID say these things. OLSC agrees wholeheartedly with what Father said in his sermons about true parishes.
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Admin
Administrator
I repeat you were not there. Father delivered an ultimatum leaving no options open for discussion. He notified the co-ordinator that the scheduled Mass for the following Sunday had been cancelled. In his ultimatum he said he would not visit us any more if we remained open to good true resistance priests providing us with the Sacraments.
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D
Deleted member 149
Guest
Hello Lulu, this is not "attacking" anyone. It is merely an observation knowing many facts and being fair to what is being said. It is important to note no "group" has the ability without the grace of God provided in the intentions of the Church. And I am sure anyone within OLSC and the other named groups in Australia will attest, as with all around the world, it was the generosity of the fathers and apostolic zeal for souls, that brought them there in early 2013, three years before any of these groups formulated. The nexus, continuing the work of Archbishop Lefebvre as SSPX priests continuing the mission they were ordained and commissioned to do.
Admin
Administrator
OLSC did not leave OLMC because there was no OLMC to leave. Our Mission Statement was made after the first experiences with Fr. Chazal/Picot when we became priestless. The Mission Statement was seeking visiting priests. Father came as a visiting priest with no conditions whatsoever.
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D
Deleted member 149
Guest
Dear Admin, please listen again and review ALL of the Cor-Mariae archives. It appears you are taking out of context selecting a minute here or there when they have been repeatedly stating the context of the crisis over and over in the last 6 years. There is no such thing as a "parish" without a Diocesan priest. Too often we Catholics are very familiar with what we grow up with and repeat what we are used to saying all the time -- a "parish". It still happens within the SSPX missions all over the world. So calling it such would be more of a nuance of familiarity than reality. Wouldn't you think so?
Thus I would think we as Catholics should look beyond the "legalism" of the crisis and see it for what God had provided what it is -- a just punishment in all four corners of the world. Even having the faith coming from our other fellow catholics is a blessing to help each other than allowing the distraction of "authority" be a banner. If we were to address what "authority" actually means, and we have many times, authority means nothing but to serve the faith these priests are trying to freely give in the grace of God to those who seek it.
"We must cultivate this sort of trust [in the Providence of the Father in heaven] and, as a corollary to it, we must become spiritually detached from every temporal condition. The man who wants to behave morally and is prepared to do so unless it involves the loss of his job limits the operation of grace ...
"It is hard to prefer God to everything whatever else, but it is the condition of turning the world to Him, as well as the requisite for our own salvation. ... Christ came not to find excuses for men’s mediocrity and conformity but to spread fire on the earth.
"If men will cultivate this combination of trust and detachment, they will necessarily lose their secular outlook. Their treasure will be in heaven, and so their thoughts will naturally be elevated into a wider perspective.
"The truth of the matter is that God alone can help us, and the price of His assistance is our humility."
Carol Robinson, My Life with Thomas Aquinas, Angelus Press, 1995, pp. 87-90
"It is hard to prefer God to everything whatever else, but it is the condition of turning the world to Him, as well as the requisite for our own salvation. ... Christ came not to find excuses for men’s mediocrity and conformity but to spread fire on the earth.
"If men will cultivate this combination of trust and detachment, they will necessarily lose their secular outlook. Their treasure will be in heaven, and so their thoughts will naturally be elevated into a wider perspective.
"The truth of the matter is that God alone can help us, and the price of His assistance is our humility."
Carol Robinson, My Life with Thomas Aquinas, Angelus Press, 1995, pp. 87-90
D
Deleted member 149
Guest
To be fair. OLMC came to Australia in 2013 and built missions...and continued ever since. Some of those later arrivals started on their own initiative a OLSC later in 2016 with a distinct "mission statement" wanting to be anonymous and a independent prayer group after the chaos of Frs. Chazal and Picot. The only change was on those later attendees of OLMC mission making to themselves a separate entity and assuming it on the OLMC mission.
Whether one sees a group over the sacraments is semantics or a binary event means nothing to our Lord. We are all baptized and owe to God what is due to Him. "Wouldn't you agree?
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Admin
Administrator
Sorry Machbees you are the one not listening.
I know there are SSPX 'parishes' everywhere. And I see what is happening in them now.
No matter that I do not agree with you. The problem is what happened in Australia this April and the fact
that Father Pfeiffer left us.
You can quote Thomas Aquinas or the scriptures to your heart's content but it does not change the fact that we have been cut off from receiving the Sacraments from Father Pfeiffer.
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I know there are SSPX 'parishes' everywhere. And I see what is happening in them now.
No matter that I do not agree with you. The problem is what happened in Australia this April and the fact
that Father Pfeiffer left us.
You can quote Thomas Aquinas or the scriptures to your heart's content but it does not change the fact that we have been cut off from receiving the Sacraments from Father Pfeiffer.
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Admin
Administrator
You keep saying 'be fair' as if that is all it is about! If you read the essay properly you will see that Father did not establish any OLMC mission in Australia. He said he did and in the same sentence he said that there were no members left. Make sense of that for a start.
It is not true that he established one in the first place in 2013. I was there and gave an account of it.
For the last time I refer you to what was said in the essay:
Stating that he had established an OLMC parish in Australia in 2013 needs a closer look because
..- Father also said there were no members left. How can anyone join an organisation that has no members. Some lay folk, including this writer, went to a talk Father gave in 2013 in a private house where he pointed out the betrayal of the SSPX by B. Fellay’s doctrinal declaration of 2012.
- The lay prayer community of Our Lady of the Southern Cross was formed in 2016. In 2013 we were still part of the Victorian Resistance movement.
D
Deleted member 149
Guest
Thank you, the Resistance movement was lead by OLMC which Frs. Chazal and Picot were a part of serving you until they departed into the false resistance in 2016 where by the OLMC fathers from the usa came to your needs -- through their great sacrifice, travel, and generosity.
Regarding your number one above, isn't it rather a oxymoron? The "organization" is through OLMC regardless if their is 155, 1, 14, of zero persons. It matters none, would it not, when the priests represent an organization the faithful too represent it through the charisma of the founder ABL honoring and giving glory to the Church. So to say something dissolved when there was no "members" left is, it would appear, more of a business association than a practicing attendee fulfilling their due worship before God -- who too was generous to send Australia some priests.
So isn't this rather silly to speak of "mission statements", or groups, or legalese when the Lord God is present to sanctify his own?
It would appear, says St. Ignatius, if there is a temporal element making itself pronounced as being in the way to arrive to God, the hindrance should be removed less there be an offense to God and an offense to His generosity.
Sometimes even a good may appear as light when in fact it is a distraction or become a [unintentional] corporate instrument seen as from the Church. When it is not.
It would appear the element of a "mission statement" is what is causing division than the simplicity to walk in the Faith. Wouldn't this be fair to observe?
D
Deleted member 149
Guest
To the contrary, I spoke with him for many hours over the situation in Australia. Proving too, as you replied to Ecclesia Militants, you can freely go to his masses when he is there and receive the sacraments from him; if you wanted too. So to be fair, that is NOT "cutting you off" is it?
D
Deleted member 149
Guest
The essay you refer to is your own account. Please see my posts following...it answers your question.
Admin
Administrator
I do not know why you cannot understand that OLMC was not there to belong to. There were no OLMC priests or organization for any faithful to represent.
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Admin
Administrator
4olsquatter
Member
In 2013 as co-ordinator of Streaky Bay for FR. Pfeiffer's visit I was heavily involved in helping Fr. Pfeiffer organise a visit to Melbourne.
In fact Fr. Pfeiffer would not have had an opening in Melbourne or Streaky Bay without me.
All we needed then was a visiting Priest to keep us from the clutches of the SSPX.
All this talk about us already belonging to the OLMC in 2013 is rubbish.
It has never been mentioned until April 2018
In fact Fr. Pfeiffer would not have had an opening in Melbourne or Streaky Bay without me.
All we needed then was a visiting Priest to keep us from the clutches of the SSPX.
All this talk about us already belonging to the OLMC in 2013 is rubbish.
It has never been mentioned until April 2018
What Fr. Pfeiffer wants to keep alive is what was done in the SSPX back in the time of Archbishop Lefebvre. The SSPX priest came to our “mission” once a month and he was the one who took the decisions for our group.
By the way, this is from an e-mail sent to us by a priest (in the false resistance, unfortunately) back in 2016.
“... A second cause of the divisions [in the Resistance] is, I think, the fact that the Mass centers have organized themselves into entities controlled by the laity. The priests are no more than "visitors" who have little to say about the organization and operation of these centers. This inevitably leads to friction between the laity involved in these centers, and the visiting priests do not have time to learn all the facts. Moreover, they have no recognized authority to decide contentious issues. Such organizations, and the blogs and websites that often accompany them, create the impression among lay people that they have sufficient authority to decide disputed issues, even theologically. I call these people Googlelogians. Indeed, from one click to another, and from one link to another, they think they can solve in a few seconds questions that would require years of study and discussion by professional theologians.
The more I think about it, the more I believe that these lay organizations are a preponderant factor at the origin of the divisions that the Resistance experiences.”
By the way, this is from an e-mail sent to us by a priest (in the false resistance, unfortunately) back in 2016.
“... A second cause of the divisions [in the Resistance] is, I think, the fact that the Mass centers have organized themselves into entities controlled by the laity. The priests are no more than "visitors" who have little to say about the organization and operation of these centers. This inevitably leads to friction between the laity involved in these centers, and the visiting priests do not have time to learn all the facts. Moreover, they have no recognized authority to decide contentious issues. Such organizations, and the blogs and websites that often accompany them, create the impression among lay people that they have sufficient authority to decide disputed issues, even theologically. I call these people Googlelogians. Indeed, from one click to another, and from one link to another, they think they can solve in a few seconds questions that would require years of study and discussion by professional theologians.
The more I think about it, the more I believe that these lay organizations are a preponderant factor at the origin of the divisions that the Resistance experiences.”
Scarlet Pimpernel
Active Member
Seems to me that some of OLSC are assigning a meaning to a word that others are not using.
Traditionalists never assigned to the word parish the official term, meaning of the local diocese.
For traditionalists the whole focus of the word "parish" is used interchangeably with the words chapel, mission or "mission chapel" or "mission parish". In ordinary conversation we need to refer to our various groups with the use of a word and parish is what Australians use. In other places the word chapel might be used. These are the same words we used when it was the local SSPX chapels or parishes we attended.
Be it independent, SSPX, or SSPX-MC we all know they are "mission parishes" because the one around the corner to us got got taken over by the modernists.
That's how it goes in this crisis with the SSPX " parishes" and the independent "parishes" too.
At the SSPX when they had picnics, or celebrations they were called "parish picnics", or come to the "parish celebration" of such & such feast day. There was no confusion that the SSPX was taking over anything. It's a word that is used to say that all the people who attend at that place are invited.
The SSPX priest was called the Pastor. We need pastors, we need good pastors. The coordinator of the group assisted the "Pastor" in whatever way he could, but that didn't mean the coordinator could at his will invite any ole independent priests or Fraternity of St. Peter priests to come say Mass.
If a priest is a good shepherd, one of his duties is to protect the sheep. How can he do that if the sheep are working behind his back inviting who-knows-who priests?
Do you want a good Shepherd or do you want hirelings to visit too? That's a sure way to invite quarreling among people.
Well Father X said this, but Father Y said that. Be thankful OLMC were willing to cross the oceans to bring you the pure doctrine, sacraments and Mass.
Traditionalists never assigned to the word parish the official term, meaning of the local diocese.
For traditionalists the whole focus of the word "parish" is used interchangeably with the words chapel, mission or "mission chapel" or "mission parish". In ordinary conversation we need to refer to our various groups with the use of a word and parish is what Australians use. In other places the word chapel might be used. These are the same words we used when it was the local SSPX chapels or parishes we attended.
Be it independent, SSPX, or SSPX-MC we all know they are "mission parishes" because the one around the corner to us got got taken over by the modernists.
That's how it goes in this crisis with the SSPX " parishes" and the independent "parishes" too.
At the SSPX when they had picnics, or celebrations they were called "parish picnics", or come to the "parish celebration" of such & such feast day. There was no confusion that the SSPX was taking over anything. It's a word that is used to say that all the people who attend at that place are invited.
The SSPX priest was called the Pastor. We need pastors, we need good pastors. The coordinator of the group assisted the "Pastor" in whatever way he could, but that didn't mean the coordinator could at his will invite any ole independent priests or Fraternity of St. Peter priests to come say Mass.
If a priest is a good shepherd, one of his duties is to protect the sheep. How can he do that if the sheep are working behind his back inviting who-knows-who priests?
Do you want a good Shepherd or do you want hirelings to visit too? That's a sure way to invite quarreling among people.
Well Father X said this, but Father Y said that. Be thankful OLMC were willing to cross the oceans to bring you the pure doctrine, sacraments and Mass.
Scarlet Pimpernel
Active Member
"It is also evident that it is the most elementary duty to protect the flock from the wolves that surround it, and to chase the hirelings who abandon the flock, according to the teachings of the Good Pastor par excellence."
And guess who?
-- Letter of Archbishop Lefebvre to his Priests
dated February 21, 1968.
And guess who?
-- Letter of Archbishop Lefebvre to his Priests
dated February 21, 1968.
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Mater Salvatoris
New Member
Patriarch Matthew sympathizes with the current state of affairs in the church. He is aware that a certain Fr P is once again stirring the faithful towards the Red Light position which was duly admonished by the more holy and worthy Bps. Z and W.
The faithful are urged to stay strong in the faith and attend masses that are endorsed by the reverend Bishops.
Stay tuned for more exhortations from his holiness Patriarch Matthew.
The faithful are urged to stay strong in the faith and attend masses that are endorsed by the reverend Bishops.
Stay tuned for more exhortations from his holiness Patriarch Matthew.